pvolcko wrote:They sell these ESCs for planes too. 5A BEC is probably pretty good on one of them. Rare to have high demand from 3 or more servos at a time in those.
I understand they work in planes to. But if you design something you don't design it with the minimum requirements in mind and then sell it for both planes AND helis
Maybe. They probably sell a lot more of these for plane application than heli. Also, they basically have the same BEC in the entire Edge line of ESCs. 5A may be great for 450 and smaller class helis, but not be enough for 500 and up (but still be plenty for other applications of the same higher power ESCs in the lineup). They also can't necessarily cover the power requirements of every brand of servo out there in a given size class. KSTs maybe draw more than comparable Savox. Hitec are known for drawing more than most servo brands. Brushless draw a lot more than coreless. They cover as many bases as they can with their design, with full knowledge it will not cover all uses, because it can't.
That all said, CC has come out with a new 120A Talon ESC that has a 20A BEC in it (basically a built in CC BEC Pro). There's also the Talon 90 which has the same 20A BEC on it. Their Talon and Talon HV lines do not have as many current options as their Edge/EdgeHV lines, but they'll likely be expanding the options over time. For your application the Talon 90 may have been the better choice if you were wanting to use a built in BEC.
pvolcko wrote:Maybe. They probably sell a lot more of these for plane application than heli. Also, they basically have the same BEC in the entire Edge line of ESCs. 5A may be great for 450 and smaller class helis, but not be enough for 500 and up (but still be plenty for other applications of the same higher power ESCs in the lineup). They also can't necessarily cover the power requirements of every brand of servo out there in a given size class. KSTs maybe draw more than comparable Savox. Hitec are known for drawing more than most servo brands. Brushless draw a lot more than coreless. They cover as many bases as they can with their design, with full knowledge it will not cover all uses, because it can't.
That all said, CC has come out with a new 120A Talon ESC that has a 20A BEC in it (basically a built in CC BEC Pro). There's also the Talon 90 which has the same 20A BEC on it. Their Talon and Talon HV lines do not have as many current options as their Edge/EdgeHV lines, but they'll likely be expanding the options over time. For your application the Talon 90 may have been the better choice if you were wanting to use a built in BEC.
You are kind of hitting on the points I have been saying. A 5 amp BEC is silly the fact they have the 20 amp BEC in the talon line indicates they know this problem already. Why stick a 20 AMP BEC in your lower line of ESCs and not your top of the line ESCs. Makes no sense.
I don't know if they'd consider the Talon line to be their lower line. They did remove some of the features of the Edge line for the Talon line, like data logging and multi-function I/O line, but they added in the high power BEC and cut the pricing compared to the Edge line at the same time, making it a high value option. I'd guess they consider it more of a lateral thing than a step back going from Edge to Talon, particularly for the large majority of users that don't use the logging or the multi-function I/O line.
Also look at it from their perspective on the whole BEC vs Rx pack argument. It really has only been in the last year or so that the tide has turned and people seem to have finally gotten comfortable running BECs in their high dollar RC helis. And even then, those that do are running external BECs. For the smaller helis the 5A internal BEC is fine, but when you get into 500 size and high performance servo packages on the smaller ones the 5A doesn't cut it. They have been hesitant to put high power BECs into their ESC products because there has been a lingering doubt about the technology in the upper levels and they didn't want to necessarily cut into their BEC Pro sales.
Assuming the trend continues toward acceptance of BECs in high demand applications, they will likely continue to expand the Talon line and quite possibly do a Edge 2 update to put the 20A BEC in there along with all the bells and whistles on the programming front.
We will have to agree to disagree The talon line is their value line. A Talon 90 goes for $76. An edge 75 goes for $102. Something closer to the Talon in terms of current the Edge 100 goes for $120. Their pricing structure indicates the edge line as their more performance oriented line.
I would not trust a castle BEC at 12S. I know some some people run them but I would not. So ripping them out of everything past the edge 100 makes sense to me. But sticking such a tiny BEC in the edge 75 just seems silly to me. They have the same BEC in the edge 75 that they have in the edge 50. One runs micro servos the other runs larger mini servos. So you build a BEC that works out for a 450 sized heli and expect the same results in a heli that requires larger servos? Over compensate for one and under compensate for the other? Probably an 8-10 amp BEC would be enough on a 500. I don't know seems silly to me.
So here it is with the new servos. These KST servos are great. I'm using the Sam ds515 for both cyclic and tail. Tail holds rock solid. I'm running them at 8.4V. I ran into a couple things with this 500. First I thought the motor was an 8 pole. The thing bogged badly. I learned this motor is a 6 pole and that did make things better but I still feel this thing is under powered. So a motor and ESC upgrade may be in its future.
Second issue is the front canopy mounts. The canopy is a PITA to get on and off. It also look like a squirrel with its mouth full of nuts. I trimmed 1/4 inch off the front canopy mounts and the canopy fits so much better.
Play with the timing settings in the ESC to see if there's some more power to be had. I'd run into motors which don't like 12khz but love 8khz. And viceversa. Advance timing increase can yield more power too.
Edge 100 ordered and KDE 1350kv G3 motor ready to go in. Only issue I have currently is I think this heli would be perfect at 2900 rpms and the biggest pinion I can find made for the 500L is a 14T which only gets me 2700 with the KDE.
2700 is what it comes geared for stock and the blades sound like they are screaming but in the air its a bit slow. I think the 500 was due for a blade increase so you can slow the blades down. 2900 should get the pop and thrust that I like.
500xf installed with 14T pinion very tight fit. Waiting on the 15T to arrive and hopefully it still fits. Pulled the 75 amp ESC off and the 100 amp goes in tomorrow.
Graham Lawrie wrote:Thats cool:) with frame flex and vibration it will be interesting to see if the clearance is ok the picture looks as if it is touching:)
pvolcko wrote:They sell these ESCs for planes too. 5A BEC is probably pretty good on one of them. Rare to have high demand from 3 or more servos at a time in those.
Yup agreed. There is a steel bar right across the back of the motor connecting the two frame halves. So I don't expect flex there. The front ESC tray is plastic so I might see flex out of that. Hopefully someone makes an aluminum tray and then it becomes a non issue.
I went back to the 500mx because I could not get to 2900 rpms with the KDE motor. Also it was really nose heavy and I dont know how I would move things around to get things to balance. Maybe one day I will try again. The KDE motor is 100 grams more than the 500mx. I want to fly it at 2900 rpms and see how I like it. I have the 100 amp edge ESC on it now. That itself was such a PITA since they used 10 guage motor wires and there is just no room up front to route things. So my 75 amp edge will be up for sale here shortly.
The talon line is their value line. A Talon 90 goes for $76. An edge 75 goes for $102. Something closer to the Talon in terms of current the Edge 100 goes for $120. Their pricing structure indicates the edge line as their more performance oriented line.
