Derek's ZMR250 Build

[Graham Lawrie]

+1 on Stambo, also i had a strange yaw also that i can only put down to a bad motor. On clean flight i was able to see a difference in it when i put them all on at full power without props on:)

[Derek]

ok Graham..thanks for that. I'll do some "props off" full throttle vib checks.

[KevG]

6040 is a lot of prop for the yaw to compensate for try upping the yaw "P" a bit and see if that helps.

did you put yaw deadband in after, that may help to.

[Derek]

I just tried my 5x4 HQ props and the quad is VERY sluggish. It needs full throttle to climb and it climbs at a very slow rate...there's no "punch" at all. I put the 6x4 props back on and everything feels like it should...except the quad still yaws on punchouts. Here is a screen shot of my PID's

PIDs.png (25.08 KiB) Viewed 3080 times

I'm off to work now....bummer!

[Stambo]

Those PIDs look like they should be close for your setup.

You could try yaw deadband just in case your tx is a bit sensitive around yaw midstick.
Command in CLI is
set yaw_deadband=10
Don't forget to type save before you leave the CLI.
10 might be a bit much you could probably drop it to 5 but it will let you know if that is the problem.
I think I would still be inclined to search for vibrations.

As for lack of power, 5040 on 3s with 2100kv motors is probably your answer there.
I run either 5040 or 5045bn on 4s and mine is quite rapid.
Same frame and motors with Littlebee ESCs.
Maybe try your 4s battery to give yourself a thrill.
Make sure all your other gear is 4s compatible though.

[Graham Lawrie]

Luxfloat is the way to go:) with rates set at 60, 50 , 40. Also yaw dead band like Stambo said

[Derek]

+1 on Stambo, also i had a strange yaw also that i can only put down to a bad motor. On clean flight i was able to see a difference in it when i put them all on at full power without props on:)

OK, in an effort to rule out a bad motor possibility, I just tested each motor (props off ) in the motors tab. I went full throttle on each motor, individually and I could hear the smoothness of each motor running and I could see on the graph that each motor only made the line move ever so slightly. Now, I do remember when I did this with my previous motors, the lines moved much much more on the graph. So, I'd like to say that I don't believe I have a bad motor.

6040 is a lot of prop for the yaw to compensate for try upping the yaw "P" a bit and see if that helps.

did you put yaw deadband in after, that may help to.

I ran these same 6x4 HQ props on my ECHO 290 and punchouts were awesome fun...solid, stable, and straight. That's why this yaw issue just blows me away. I did try the 5x4 HQ props that I have left over from my HK Dart 250 and there is just no power and no punch at all. The ZMR is quite pathetic with the 5x4 props on my 3S pack.

As for the deadband, I did go to the CLI and changed the deadband to 3 but, after reading Stambo's post above, I never typed in "Save". I just typed in "Exit" after making the change. I thought settings were saved after typing in "Exit." Perhaps not. I now have a lil sticky note on my computer that says "Save, Save, Save". So, whether it's clicking on "Save" or typing "Save", I should be able to remember to "Save".

Those PIDs look like they should be close for your setup.

You could try yaw deadband just in case your tx is a bit sensitive around yaw midstick.
Command in CLI is
set yaw_deadband=10
Don't forget to type save before you leave the CLI.
10 might be a bit much you could probably drop it to 5 but it will let you know if that is the problem.
I think I would still be inclined to search for vibrations.

As for lack of power, 5040 on 3s with 2100kv motors is probably your answer there.
I run either 5040 or 5045bn on 4s and mine is quite rapid.
Same frame and motors with Littlebee ESCs.
Maybe try your 4s battery to give yourself a thrill.
Make sure all your other gear is 4s compatible though.

I just got home from work and it's time for a shower and bed. I have to work tonight. I might be able to do a bit of testing before work, this afternoon. Otherwise, I'm going to take all the suggestions that I've gotten and I'm going to try them, one at a time, tomorrow afternoon after I get up.

So, Stambo, I'll try messing with the deadband a bit. I'll also get my 4S 1400mah battery charged up and I'll give the 5x4 props another go. I'm just kinda bummed because I ran the 6x4 props on my ECHO 290 and it was a treat to fly...on 3S and 4S. Maybe my ZMR wants the smaller props and 4S packs. I'll give it a go!


I sure do appreciate everyone's continued help. It just seems like things go sour, one after another...but you guys keep coming back with help, suggestions, guidance and support.

Thanks very much!

[Stambo]

What motors were you running on the Echo290 Derek?

[Derek]

What motors were you running on the Echo290 Derek?

The same Sunnysky 2207-2100kv motors.

There are quite a few YouTube videos that I've seen where people are using these motors with these 6x4 or 6x4.5 HQ props on 3S and 4S. I used both 3S and 4S on my ECHO 290 and it was a great flyer. Here is a video of my ECHO 290 with those motors and props but on 3S

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6pGhX_zwqg

[Stambo]

I would (carefully) check for vibrations with the props on.
Tie it down or hold it down very carefully.
I have had a situation where a prop looks right on the balancer and a motor spins smooth on its own but put the 2 together and I got all sorts of vibes.
I ended up fitting some better props and all was good.

[Derek]

I would (carefully) check for vibrations with the props on.
Tie it down or hold it down very carefully.
I have had a situation where a prop looks right on the balancer and a motor spins smooth on its own but put the 2 together and I got all sorts of vibes.
I ended up fitting some better props and all was good.

I can do that!

[Derek]

Still unable to get Betaflight but Cleanflight seems to still work just fine. That's good enough for me for now. I'm gonna share a few screen shots from my Cleanflight. Maybe there is something in the shots that I'm still missing.

Cleanflight1.png (53.94 KiB) Viewed 3052 times

Cleanflight2.png (7.9 KiB) Viewed 3052 times

Cleanflight3.png (71.86 KiB) Viewed 3052 times

As of right now, I'm just waiting on the wife to get home from work so that I can wander outside and do some more testing without my curious lil girl running to the quad. She sure is fascinated when the quad lifts off.

[Derek]

I am curious about something new...while watching the Setup tab (the tab that displays the quad and you can see it's movements when you move the quad), while the quad is sitting on my desk, untouched and not moving, the quad on the screen is rotating (yawing) to the right. I can see the Heading raise one digit, about every two seconds. Is this normal?

[Stambo]

I am curious about something new...while watching the Setup tab (the tab that displays the quad and you can see it's movements when you move the quad), while the quad is sitting on my desk, untouched and not moving, the quad on the screen is rotating (yawing) to the right. I can see the Heading raise one digit, about every two seconds. Is this normal?

Yup, not unusual.
Chances are Betaflight issue will be an incompatible driver on your PC.
Cleanflight will be fine, it just sometimes takes a little more tuning to get it how you want it.

[Derek]

I have no problem with using Cleanflight instead of Betaflight. I just wish I could get this thing sorted out.

I've moved the motors around, still yaws clockwise on a climb out.
I've recalibrated the esc's (many times), still yaws clockwise.
I've tried different props, still yaws clockwise.
I've tried the 5x4 props...there is just no power.
I've added more deadband, still yaws clockwise.

I'm gonna try my other Naze32 board next. Maybe it's a board issue (doubt it, but maybe).

I can get in and out of Cleanflight with no issues. I can hover the ZMR and fly it around with no issues...but when I try to climb, it yaws clockwise.

[Graham Lawrie]

Derek is your arrow on the Naze pointing in the direction of travel or to the right of the craft?

[Stambo]

Do you have a recording cam on it Derek?
Could you upload a video with sound so we can see and more importantly hear what it does.

[Derek]

I have a Mobius on board, yes. I'll get some video posted from the on board camera and I'll see if I can find a camera person to get a bit of video of the quad, too.

[Derek]

Somebody (me) forgot to charge the Mobius camera, so there is no onboard video but here is a bit of video, from my Dads yard, of the quad and the yaw issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9ZlvRSQyHM

[Derek]

I just switched to Luxfloat with rates at 60,50,40 and changed the yaw deadband to 10. This thing is far too twitchy for me now but I did manage a few punchouts and it still yaws clockwise. I even changed out the Naze32 for my spare Naze32 (thinking it may be a board issue) but that's not helping either.

I guess that pretty much leaves us that the issue has to be because of a vibration somewhere. I just can't think of where it may be coming from. These motors are new and smooth. The graph, in the motors tab, shows slight variations from a flat line. The props are balanced. All wires are ziptied. All frame bolts are locktited and snugged up. I'm really at a loss here.