NEED ADVICE - Dilemma With Flying Buddy

[Derek]

I didn't know that! That's a bit of "peace of mind" for myself. I thought I was just paying the membership for the magazine. I like the magazine.

I know that I'm going to crash sometime and hopefully the only property that I damage is the grass but its nice to know that I have that coverage.

[HeliBaby1527]

Wow, Derek...this guy is so jealous of you and wants to "one up you" so bad, he can't stand it!
A "Come to Jesus" talk is definitely in order! The AMA membership is a great idea! And, I'd tell him to buy the Phoenix sim and practice with it or you can't fly with him anymore...What about a true buddy trainer connection between radios to allow you to avoid any catastrophes, after simulation training? Or, some flying lessons he'd have to pay for, if he won't listen to you?
Brother-in-laws are just like ***holes...everybody's got one! And you gotta live with this one...and your sister. It's not going to be easy, but he needs to be "taken down a peg or two"! Lots of good advice I read...just my "two cents worth"...

All the best,
Terry

[Derek]

Thanks for your reply, Terry! It's definitely a unique situation.

My wife and I, both, have encouraged him to get a sim, of any kind. He always says, "Yeah, I should do that!" and then he never does. I have had him on the buddy box MANY times and, while on the buddy box, he always does very well. It's when he's on it own that he does stupid things.

I was doing ALOT of thinking about this while I was at work last night. I've decided on a few things. I have a small box of plane parts and electronics in my garage that belongs to him. I have one of his planes, too. I'm going to talk with his, this weekend, and I'm going to ask him to not sell his Blade 450x. I'm going to try to encourage him to use it as a "trainer". I won't have any issues with him flying his 600, as long as he's safe and responsible. I'm going to encourage him to keep flying his planes. I can honestly say that my "plane flying" has helped my "heli flying". Once again, I'm going to encourage him to get a Flight Sim...of any kind, preferably the Phoenix Sim because I am familiar with it and I can help him. I am going to express some of my frustrations about his impatience and disregard for safety. If he has any problems with any of the above, then I simply won't fly with him until he has logged at least 20 hours of "actual" sim time. No flipping and no 3D maneuvers...actual sim time...circuits and orientations. If he has any problems with that, then I will simply take his rc stuff from my garage and I will leave it with him and that will just be the end of it. It will be unfortunate but I've simply had enough.

I surely don't know it all. I've never claimed to know it all. I will never claim to know it all. But I do know that he would be able to learn a lot more from me if he'd just be more aware of safety and responsibility and if he'd just not be in such a rush.

Once again guys, thanks for taking the time to read this. I appreciate your comments and suggestions!

[HeliBaby1527]

Sounds like a great plan to me, Derek...very fair and on point!
I hope everything goes well this weekend. Let us know how it goes...

All my best,
Terry

[murankar]

Introduce him to the rchn pilot proficiency program. Use that as your benchmark for his prigression.

[Derek]

Well, it happened. We had our talk. I expected to talk with him tomorrow but he called me this morning so we talked.

My flying buddy's name is Tracy. I suppose I could have mentioned that above, lol. Anyway...I voiced my concerns, serious concerns, about safety and responsibility. He apologized and he said that he is ready to start. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if he actually follows through.

I did tell Tracy that I felt he was wrong in wanting to sell his 450x. He says that he has a 130X that he planned on using as a trainer helicopter. I told him that I couldn't believe that he was trying to compare a 130X to a 450x. Same company, yes, but entirely different machines. Our talk lasted for about 30 minutes and I think, by the end of our talk, he has decided to keep the 450x. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if he actually follows through.

Then we get on the topic of his 600. He asked me if I knew why he bought the 600. I said "No." He said that he bought the 600 because I have one and he likes how mine flies. I replied back by saying that my 600 flies as well as it does because I've set it up well, I've learned how to make adjustments, and I've practiced on the Sim...alot. Tracy says that he wants to learn how to make adjustments in this DX6 and on his helicopters. No mention of getting a Sim. I brought the "Sim" topic back up and his reply was that he has spent nearly $1000 (used 600 Pro DFC with batteries, New Ikon, new TP820 charger, and power supply) and he really doesn't have the money for the sim. I told him that a single crash of that 600 will cost so much more than the cost of a sim. I don't think he's following my thought process. So...if he wants to ignore the sim, that's fine with me....it won't be my checkbook paying for his "dumb thumb".

In the end, he bought the heli because I have one. He has agreed to be more safety aware. He has agreed to set aside any and all inverted flight. He has agreed to wanting to learn how to make adjustments in his DX6 and what the functions are. In order to make adjustments on his Ikon, he'll NEED my laptop (or the LHS) because he has no computer. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if he actually follows through. I did tell him that if there are any of his "usual" disregards for safety, he won't be flying with me anymore.

I am going to go print out that RCHN Pilot Proficiency Program, right now, because it's something that I will be working on, for myself. Hopefully he'll take an interest in it.

Fingers are crossed and hopes are high. Only time will tell.

[Tony]

Sounds like you've been very diplomatic Derek, if he doesn't need to your requests then there's only one thing to do... If I was Tracy listening to what you've said to him I'd be putting the big helis away and practicing on the 130. Down to him now...

Shame he hasn't got a computer as he could have come on hangouts and got other members thoughts on his attitude to flying. I know these guys would be supporting you and telling him the same...

[Derek]

I'm trying to "help" him and, at times, it just feels like I'm banging my head against the wall. I just don't understand why he'd buy a helicopter because I have one. I'm certainly not the greatest pilot but he can't compare himself to me and think that he's going to fly his 600 like I fly mine. I am on my sim at least 2 times a week, every week. Yes, there are days that I just get on the sim and treat it as a video game but, for the most part, I get on the sim and I'm working on orientations, auto rotations, and new maneuvers.

Yes, it is a shame that he doesn't have a home computer or laptop but I really think that if he were to come to the Hangout, and the flyers here would give Tracy their opinions, I really think that Tracy would simply ignore the advice given.

After our talk this morning, I was thinking....why did he buy a charger and not know that it needed a power supply? Why did he buy a helicopter with a Castle ESC and not have the means for programming it? Why did he buy an Ikon with no means of programming it? Answer: To keep up with me....and it frustrated me.

[danhampson]

He should sell the 600 and get a cheap computer phoenix and crash the crap out of the 450, the learning curve will be quicker and far less expensive.

Just my 2c.

[Derek]

I agree with you, 100%, Dan....but he has difficulties being told that he is "wrong".

[Derek]

Well, today was a new day but had the same results from my flying buddy. Tracy picked up his 600 from the hobby shop today and he told me, despite the 7 degrees F temperature today, he wanted to go fly his helicopter. I flat out told him that I felt he was a fool.

He brings the helicopter to me and asked that I double check the settings of his DX6 and the Ikon. Both were suppose to be setup by someone at the LHS. It's probably a good thing that he did. His throttle curve was linear on all 3 flight modes. This is bad for him because he has a habit of chopping the throttle on landings. If he were to do that, the helicopter would likely slam the ground. Tracy wanted the 3 banks setup in the Ikon and one of them with the Self Level "on". This wasn't so, either. Only bank 2 was accessible and the Self Level was disabled. There were a few other things that weren't setup right but the worst one was that the screws to the tail boom block were loose, very loose, and one screw was missing from the tail rotor case.

Does it take a genius to see that the tail boom was rotating because screws were loose/missing? The answer to that question is "No" because I am no genius but I noticed. Had he gone flying, in this cold weather, that helicopter would surely have met it's doom.

[pvolcko]

Crashes in the cold are usually much worse than in the warm. Cold makes all the plastic, fiberglass, and CF extra brittle.

It is insane, in this day and age, a person doesn't have a computer. Especially one fooling around with RC helis. Without a computer to participate in forums and watch youtube vids and whatnot I would never have gotten involved in RC anything probably, much less helis.

He's immensely lucky to have you around and willing to help him, especially with the LHS being useless.

Why didn't he know about needing a power supply? Because he doesn't have a computer and didn't do any independent research on what he was needing/wanting/buying before hand. Why didn't he ask you? Because he doesn't want to look the fool. And because his useless LHS probably led him astray (selling a 600 to someone with obvious low experience is a big tip off on their character as a business, I'd say).

[Derek]

Crashes in the cold are definitely gonna be worse. You Paul, being an experienced flyer (with a "X" amount of common sense) understands the science and math of Cold Weather + Plastic Parts + Crash = Devastation.

As far as me helping him....I am very very willing to help anyone that wants the help. I know that I wouldn't be where I am now without other flyers helping me. It's just a shame that I seem to be more concerned about his wallet than he is. My patience with Tracy is wearing thin because he's always in a rush. Check the CG? Only when I remind him. Preflight checks? Only when I remind him.

Tracy doesn't have a computer because he's a truck driver. Over a year ago, my sister and Tracy ran into a bit of bad luck and got into a financial pinch. They are on the recovering path and doing quite well. Tracy did tell me that he and my sister are looking for a laptop that will run the Phoenix Sim and he wants to get the sim. FINALLY!!! I honestly couldn't believe he said it.

The charger is another quick story...about 5-6 months ago, I told him that I was going to upgrade from my TP610c charger to the TP820 charger. He remembered that I was shopping for that charger so, last week, he goes and buys that charger. He brings it to me to charge his packs and I asked, "Where's the power supply?" His face just went blank. He tells me that he didn't know it needed a PS. So I asked, why did you buy it? His reply was, "...because you said it was a good charger." Ok...indeed I did say that but it still needs a PS.

I gotta tell ya, guys....with Tracy....it's never a dull moment. I'm either laughing at him or frustrated with him. There have been a few moments when his brain is overruling his ego and he does fly well (planes) and I have told him that I was happy for him and proud of him. It's kind like having a 54 year old teenager, lol. There is a part of me that absolutely wants to give up on him and tell him that I will never fly with him again. Then, there is the part of me that wants to help him reach "success". I don't feel obligated, I just feel that I want to help him.

Here is a part that I think all of us, here at the Hangout, will be proud of Tracy about. I did introduce the RCHN Pilot Proficiency Program to Tracy today. To my surprise and relief, he sounded very interested and very excited to start from the beginning and work on it. I did say that I would work with him. So...I'm hoping for a bit of warmer weather so that we can get started because I can promise you this....Derek does NOT fly when the temps are only 7 degrees, lol.

[Tony]

I'm surprised Tracy doesn't have a laptop because you have one...

It's certainly the first thing he needs before any helicopter parts. Then on those cold days he can still be actively involved with RC, learning how and why his heli lifts off the ground, the importance and maintaince of each component. We've all had to learn this to fly safely...

You have a job on your hands Derek... But if anyone can do this, you can

[Derek]

I forgot to mention this earlier...

We were talking about his 600 and I asked him what kind of "routine maintenance" he does to his other helicopters. His reply was, "What maintenance?" Oh boy....so...I went on to explain about oiling the bearings every 10-15 flights, checking each screw on the helicopter and making sure they are snug/tight. He said that he's never oiled anything. Oh boy!

Each moment that I spend around him, I can hear the theme music for "Mission Impossible" playing in my head, lol. When Tracy is on his "good behavior" he really is a good guy to hang around with and fly with. I can only handle him in small doses.

Only time will tell...I do hope that I don't have to report back to you all, saying that he's crashed his 600 because he's done something stupid.

[Tony]

Maybe a crashed 600 is a good thing as long as it's done safely....lol. At least you won't have that to worry about, then he may concentrate on the smaller helis...

Can't believe he doesn't do any maintaince or checks to his helis mind.. and appears completely ignorant of even the need to do them... Would you continue to drive you car without servicing/maintaining it.... A big NO..

[Derek]

Last summer, he bought a BNF (bind n fly) airplane. He charged the battery and bound the plane to his DX6 and went flying. Crashed on the first flight. He brings it to me and he's all upset because the plane was so twitchy and he couldn't control it. I asked him if he set up his DX6 (end points, dual rates, expo, etc). He said "no" because the plane was suppose to be "Bind n Fly". Oh wow!!! I couldn't believe what I was hearing...

[Tony]

It's ignorance of the need to know these things Derek, hence the absolute need to get on the Internet and learn this stuff, it's the only way.. He can't and shouldn't rely on YOU to tell him EVERYTHING.. Maybe the LHS should have advised him of the need to setup the TX. Or at least asked him if he knew how to....

[Derek]

I am very sorry to have to bring this thread back in the light but today's events needed to be shared. I was completely FURIOUS earlier today but I'm much better now because I'm back in the garage building stuff again. It's so therapeutic in my garage, lol.

Anyway...ok, this is gonna be rather long, I'm sure, so go grab yourself a popcorn and soft drink (or other cold beverage, lol)

I started my day with 100% intentions of heading to the flying field early this morning and just having some fun. I looked at the forecast and it looked promising until about 3pm. Well, I got busy around the house so the morning flight didn't happen. It began to rain about 4 hours prior to what the forecast said. That's odd! After the rain, I sent Tracy, my flying buddy (and my sister's boyfriend) a text message to see if he wanted to go flying around 3pm because the weather radar looked clear. He replied back "OK". So, 2:30pm rolls around...it's hot. I suggest to the wife that she and my daughter hop in the pool while I'm gone because I didn't want to drag both of them out in the heat. They were in the pool rather quickly, lol. I loaded the truck up and went to Tracy's house. I find him just beginning to charge his batteries. Ugh! So, I wait nearly an hour and a half for him to charge up his packs. Finally, we head to the flying field (not the club field because he is not AMA still...UGH). My first flight was with the Delta Ray (we'll talk more about that in the Delta Ray thread, lol). I got it down safely. My second flight was my ECHO 290 quad. Mobius recording and I brought it down safely. Tracy fires up his crashed and repaired P51 Mustang (Parkzone, I think). He gets in the air and he complains about how it's flying. He says it's not turning very well. I see that he nearly chops the throttle in his turns so when the plane comes back into the wind, it practically "weather vanes" directly into the wind instead of a coordinated turn. I suggest that he carries some throttle in the turns. He barks back to me saying "It wasn't like that before." UGH....just carry some throttle in your turns. Ok, he lands it and then I fly my Blue Cub STOL. Sweet plane, sweet flight, sweeter landing.

At this point, two people park in the parking lot where we were. They parked well of to the side and out of our way. Rather thoughtful, in my opinion. They wonder over to the nearby, very nearby, soccor field (keep this fact in mind). No big deal really because we have plenty of dirt field to fly over in front of us while the soccor guys are behind us and to our right. Tracy plugs in his Trex 600 Pro DFC and wanders out to the middle of the lot. I asked him if he had done a preflight check (check swash movement with stick input, check that the Ikon is compensating when the heli is tilted). He replies, "Nope, I forgot to do that." He quickly does the check. Tracy spools up the helicopter and a wicked sound is coming from the helicopter. I ask him to shut it down. He does. We look at the helicopter and the sound is coming from where the torque tube umbrella gear meets the autorotation umbrella gear. It's clear as day where the noise is coming from. The gear mesh looks to be proper, to me, but the noise is awful. He asks if the main gear is rubbing the canopy. You can look at the inside of the canopy and see that there are no rub marks...so the answer is no. Those umbrella gears aren't missing any teeth but something is definitely not right. I suggest to him that he take it home and see if the gear mesh is proper, make sure that bearing inside that hub is ok, etc. Tracy replies, "Well, I haven't flown this helicopter in a few weeks so I'm just gonna fly it and if it blows up, oh well." I was in immediate disbelief. With that comment, he's taken all sense of caution, safety, and cost and just tossed them out the window. Fine, I put the canopy back on the helicopter and I take the helicopter out, and away, from my truck another 30 yards or so and then I return to my truck. The more and more that I thought about his last comment, it just pissed me off. I packed up all my stuff and closed the truck. I was just gonna start up the truck and leave without even saying a word but then my sense of caution and concern took over and I began to think, "What if that helicopter does blow up and it hits Tracy?" Damn.....so I stayed but I stayed at my truck.

The 600 spools up and I can hear that awful sound from across the parking lot. It lifts off and immediately goes into stunt 2. I can see that the tail has a slight drift. Tracy goes into his usual routine of flips and pitch pumps. He never flies it. What I mean by "he never flies it" is he never does any circuits, figure 8's, orientation drills...nothing. Just flips and pitch pumps. I can see that he's fighting it because the 600, in stunt 2, is just screaming around from side to side. Coming out of a flip, the 600 tears WAY off to the right and it's heading towards the soccor players to the right and behind me, which also means that he's now flying behind the flight line. I shout to Tracy, "Get it out of here!!!". He regains control and brings it back in front of him. He lands it with a 6 foot auto and that noise is still there. Instead of checking the gears or the tail, he checks the motor and esc temps with his hand. He spools it back up and just hovers it in front of him about 2 feet off the ground. He lands the 600 and checks the motor and esc again. Never looked at the gears. Once again, he's back in the air and flipping around. The tail is drifting all over the place. It's obvious he's fighting it. At this point, I'm pretty pissed off. He lands the helicopter, for the final time. I go rescue the helicopter by unplugging it and taking it back to the trucks. I start looking at the umbrella gears again. The mesh looks good and all teeth are present. I tell him that, if it were mine, I'd take it to the semi pro at the LHS and have him look at the helicopter. I think that hub and bearing need replaced. I tell him that the parts don't cost very much. Tracy replies, "Great, more money dumped on the helicopter!" I tell him that the parts are much cheaper than a total rekit because of the lack of proper parts. He shrugs his shoulders.

Shortly after that, we begin talking about a case charging station that he is having built. The semi pro is suppose to build a case charging station with a TP820 charger and two power supplies with all the proper wiring. Apparently, the build has taken much longer than Tracy had expected. He told me that he was just gonna go get his stuff from the LHS and Tracy was going to build the station himself and he says, "If it doesn't blow up then I've done something right."

That last comment was all I needed to hear. I told him that I was leaving and I left. On my way home, I begin to think about it all. Tracy has told me that he has learned a lot from me over the last year or so. Tracy has told me that he appreciates all the help that I've given him. The problem is....he may be listening to what I have to say but he doesn't absorb anything. He doesn't put into practice my suggestions. I even printed out a copy of the RCHN Pilot Proficiency Program for him. I'll be he's not even looked at it. When I watch him with his helicopters (130x, 450x, and Trex 600) in the air, all I see is that he wants to do what I do but he doesn't do any of the orientation drills that I do and I have suggested that he do. I've suggested that he get a sim. He says that he goes to the LHS and flies on their sim. I ask him if he practices orientations, circuits, figure 8's etc. He replies, "A little bit but I really like doing the funnels." Unbelieveable!!!

I get home and I talk with my wife and I let her know what all happened. I told her what I've decided, which is this....

I'm done with him! 100% done trying to help Tracy. He's unsafe, dangerous, careless, wreckless, and he just doesn't seem to care. The people at the LHS have a nickname for Tracy...."Turbo". They call him "Turbo" because, no matter what he gets his hands on, it's full throttle and go. It's like "Fire, Fire, Ready" instead of "Ready, Aim, Fire". With Tracy, there is no "Aim" and I'm tired of it.

After about an hour of settling down, I call him and I tell him that I refuse to fly with him anymore because he's careless and dangerous. I tell him that I've asked, repeatedly not to fly the helicopter over us nor behind us....and on top of that, why would you fly a helicopter with a faulty part? His reply was, "That's fine. I'm gonna sell my rc stuff because I'm not enjoying it anymore." I tell him that the decision is up to him but I won't fly with him until he wants to learn how to properly maintain his models, until he learns how to fly safely, until he learns how to fly.

So, the way that I see this situation is that I have nothing to lose and everything to gain by not flying with him anymore. I will simply go to the club field from now on. Tracy can't fly there because he is not an AMA member nor a club member. Since my Dad has recently taken to the skies, I will be calling him when I want to go fly. Dad is not an AMA member nor a club member either but he can fly with me at the club for free 3 times a year. We can still fly at my usual place but that will be on days when I know that Tracy is not in town (he's a truck driver and he's off on Sunday's and Monday's).

So...if you've made it this far reading this post, I thank you for listening to me vent. I was very bothered by Tracy's actions today. I was so bothered by him that I didn't even fly everything that I had taken to be flown. Now, I have several "fully charged" packs just sitting here. Thankfully the weather for this week looks nice and flyable on my next day off.

[KevG]

Probably one of the best decisions you have made Derek,

any heli safety is the number 1 concern, darn any model safety is paramount, but a 600 blade hits with about as mush force as an elephant would,

plus its suppose to be enjoying to fly, not worrying about your flying partner,

Oh good vent by the way,