NEED ADVICE - Dilemma With Flying Buddy

[Derek]

Throughout much of 2014, I began flying with my sisters' boyfriend. In all honestly, he's not my ideal choice of a "flying buddy" but I did enjoy flying with him because I had someone to share stories and experiences with. He is 53 years old (not that his age matters but I'm just trying to describe him) and he has a bit of arrogance about him that I can only handle in small doses. He's been flying rc's since late 2013. He was an absolute disaster when we started flying together but he was showing improvements with each flight. He is, in my mind, a bit of a beginner because he hasn't had a lot of flight time. He will buy a plane and his maiden flight usually goes well because I'm there to help calm him down and I help him trim out the control surfaces. A couple of days go by and I get a phone call from him saying that he was flying inverted or doing some rolls and he's smashed into the ground. I have suggested, many times, that he get a simulator because the only time he's ever on the sim is when he visits the LHS but when he is on the sim, he's rolling, looping, inverted, trying to hover. He will NEVER fly a single pack just learning and doing circuits. He sees other flyers "doing stuff" and he tries to do what we all do...and then the inevitable happens.

Mid 2014, the story gets worse. He tells me that he watches me fly helicopters and he wants to do it, too. He buys a 130x with AS3X. Fair enough..maybe he wants to "learn". Instead of hovering around or doing simple circuits, he's flipping it and trying to hover inverted....CRASH! Then he blames the AS3X. I can't believe what I'm hearing. He repairs it, flies it, and has the same result. No orientation practice EVER! Then he buys a 450X BNF with AR7200bx. I was a bit more nervous about this decision, but it's not my money. His first couple of flights were, in fact, hovering tail in and moving the helicopter around. No other orientation practice...just tail in....then he shoots up into the skies and begins flipping and trying to hover inverted and then.....yep...it happens.....CRASH! He brings it to me to be repaired. Oh my....nearly $100 in damage plus blades. We get it all repaired and I hover it and fly it around in all flight modes. Happy with the results, he takes over on the next battery and seems to respect the helicopter a bit more and is just hovering around. Ok....great! I get a phone call a few days later and....yep...he's done it again...CRASH! He took the 450x to the LHS to pay them to repair it for him. $130 later and it's ready to fly again.

This is where my nervousness sky-rockets!!! He has decided to sell the 450x because he's tired of fixing a helicopter with such small and tedious parts. He's, then, going to use that money to buy a used Trex 600 Pro DFC from one of the flyers at the LHS. He's bought a new Ikon to put on the 600. I just don't know what to think about this.

Further more, he's told me that he is going to buy a 1.3ghz video system and Fatshark Dominators so that he can fly FPV with me.

As you read this, are you picking up on a bit of a trend?

I have a nice Trex 450 Pro DFC and I can fly it and flip it. He buys a 450X.

I have a nice Trex 600 Pro DFC, with Ikon and I can fly it and flip it. He buys a used 600 and buys a new Ikon for it.

I have a 1.3ghz video system and Fatshark Dominators for FPV. He tells me that he is going to buy a 1.3ghz video system and Dominators.

I have to admit that I am nervous and a bit scared. Now...he doesn't scare/intimidate me, personally. If something were to go wrong between us, I am quite sure that I can beat him down. I am nervous and scared because he has sold the 450x (a great trainer) and buys a 600 Pro DFC that is 95% identical to my own. I know what kind of power my 600 has but I respect it more than ANYONE can understand.

As for the FPV, I have seen him fly his Blade 350qx very wrecklessly and I can just imagine that he is going to toss the FPV plane, fly outside of his skills and crash into a house, car, or worse yet, a person.

I'm also afraid that "something is going to go wrong" and I'm going to "SNAP". You all should know by now that I am a responsible rc'er. I ask questions about what I don't know or understand. I have never crashed into anything but the ground and that one tree that jumped in front of my glider. I fly away from persons and properties. I have to remind my flying buddy to "stay away from the cars", "don't fly behind yourself", "settle down" and more.

Actually, I've been sitting here thinking about this and I think I've come up with a solution. Both of us are going to join the local flying club. Maybe I'll just fly my models and have my fun and then just let him do his irresponsible stuff at the flying club and I'll just let them reprimand and scold him. He's obviously not listening to me.

Ok, I'm going to end this but it was nice to "vent" a little bit. One more thing about him....those articles that we read about people buying quads and crashing into crowds and buildings and such....that is going to be my flying buddy, someday. Each one of those articles that I read, I think of him.

[Lee]

Shock tactics needed Derek.
Show him all the pictures and article of what a heli can do to someone, when it hits them.
Show him the article about the guys that have died from a heli.
Maybe that will get through his thick skull

[Derek]

Shock tactics needed Derek.
Show him all the pictures and article of what a heli can do to someone, when it hits them.
Show him the article about the guys that have died from a heli.
Maybe that will get through his thick skull

It's funny that you mention all that, Lee!

I have shown him the article about the guy in the UK that was killed, two years ago. I showed him the article about the guy, here in the states that was decapitated two years ago. I've shown him lipo fire videos. I showed him some of the videos and articles about the people that are buying quads and crashing into building and I try to explain the damage to the hobby that these idiots are causing. While we are sitting in my living room and talking about this stuff, he seems to understand and we discuss "safety concerns" that I have. Then, when we get to our flying field, it's quite a different story.

I almost feel obligated to be there for him when he maidens his 600....just in case something bad happens. If it slams the ground, that's one thing. I'm more concerned about personal injury.

I'd really like to just tell him that I don't want to fly with him anymore because I just feel that he is dangerous and he flies with his arrogance and not his brain. I feel that he sees me flipping and flopping my heli's and planes and he wants to do it, too. I can understand that he wants to flip and flop them. It's fun! BUT....i've had my Phoenix Sim for over 3 years now and I'm on it quite a bit.

I did send him a text message, yesterday, and I asked him to come over this weekend. I told him that I'd like to talk about flying together this year. He did say that he'd come, so we'll see what happens.

I think I'm just gonna have to "take the gloves off" and tell him that these rc's are meant to be fun to fly but "safety" absolutely has to be THE MOST important and "responsibility" and "respect" have to be the second most important.

[murankar]

That's the best thing to do. Wash your hands of this accendent waiting to happen. You could be a by standard caused by his wreaklessness. Personally I would refer him to someone who can handle his personality.

He maybe he is the person who has to experience to believe it.

[Derek]

Thank you, Matthias, for also taking the time to read what I wrote. I didn't think I would be writing THAT much but it's a situation that I dealt with all last year and I'm "that much more" concerned now that he has a 12S 600. I tell ya what....if/when his 600 hits the ground...it's gonna hit a lot harder than his 450X crashes. I just hope that nothing and no one gets hurt. You can be damn sure that I won't be getting injured.....I won't be anywhere near his 600.

I think I may talk with my sister about him. I'll have to be a bit "sensitive" with my words because she is very much like him.

But...today is Wednesday. I have 3 days to get my words right so that when I talk with him, hopefully he will understand my concerns. If he doesnt understand my concerns, then our flying relationship will come to an end.

[Marius]

I know a few people who remind me of your brother in law, they usually quit the hobby due to loss of motivation. Let him crash the 600, then see what happens. Repairing a 450 and repairing a 600 is two completely different divisions cost wise. Though, there is the slight chance that he might get hurt flying the 600...

[Derek]

You're right Marius....the damage cost of a 600 would definitely be much more than a 450. Just the blades alone would be $80ish.

Thanks for you post, buddy!

[KevG]

Derek, it is quite a dilemma for sure, being close to him personally as well does not help, but I have to agree with Marius, if he puts the 600 in the deck, the result could be quite shocking to him, especially if it ends up as a fireball,

You know the effort and skill it requires to put a machine of that size and capability in the air, and keep it there, and can have a good guess at what the first crash is going to cost him,

Let him learn the hard way, oh and stay out of his way,

[Derek]

Thank you, as well, Kev for taking the time to read this and I appreciate your comment, too.

I've got well over 50 flights on my 600, crash free. I'm hoping to go another 50. If I can't get another 50 flights, I am well aware of how much it would cost to repair it.

....the hard way, it is then! And you can bet that I'll be well out of the way....with a crash bag and fire extinguisher at the ready.

[KevG]

I done a bit of a calculation a while back and the force of a 600 blade is about the same as an elephant hitting you,

So yes my friend stand well clear,

[Lee]

I have had many students that think they no it all.
They don't listen to a word I say about the dangers.
They continue to do as they please.
I eventually give up, and let them have a "controlled accident". Enough to get a mouthful of sand, and bring there ego down a peg or two.
Then they start to listen

[cml001]

What Lee said... If the $ side of it doesn't phase him... Keep ur distance and let him have it... Bout all u can do at this point.

[Tony]

Quite a problem you have there Derek, I do feel some of what he does I do too. Like trying to run before you can walk... I've never ever been with an experienced pilot before I met up with Lee, and I had some close shaves with him to due to total lack of control... But I've learnt, Lee has told me what to do and I'll do it now, and that's learning the basics.

As for your brother in law, sounds like he's been told time and time again which is having a serious impact on you. Get him told politely that unless he starts from scratch and learns the basics AND realises the potential dangers you are going to cut strings with him in this hobby.. It's far too dangerous to be fool hardy and try tricks you can't do safely..

He obviously wants to keep up with you buying the same aircraft as you but he needs to realise you have much more experience that him..

i hope you sort it out with him, the club sounds a good idea, if he hears from someone else he make take notice of you in future...

[Graham Lawrie]

As i say a bit of lead behind his ear might help:) You have the right to bare arms in good ol USA:) Put a cap in his a** sounds way to stupid for stupid:)

[Derek]

Sounds good guys! Thanks for taking the time to read about my situation. I do hope that he and I can get this sorted and things change. If things don't change, I will make the change and I won't be flying with him anymore. I am a safe flyer and I'm going to keep it that way!!!

[murankar]

I would maybe be upfront and "Frank" with him. Tell him you dont feel safe with his "hot doggin" at his current skill level. Express that you want to be able to go home at the end of the day and see your family. To be honest these are very valid concerns and you should express them.

As for your 600 I would start buying spares if have not already. That should lessen the blow of a dinner date with terra firma.

[pvolcko]

First, does he have an AMA membership? If he doesn't then tell him he must get one ASAP, if for no other reason than the insurance. A 600 is a real machine with real mass and power. They are dangerous things. As you said, to be respected at all times.

Example: I was flying at the club one day last year. Old timer who's been flying for ages had his nitro thunder tiger 700 up. Flying simple circuits about 25ft up. Came around on a counter clockwise pass and flew through the sun. Lost visibility and before he knew it the heli was flying at his rear left quarter and he lost orientation. Ended up dive bombing it, under power, right next to our club house and some bench seats outside it against the wall. It crashed 10ft behind me; I was watching from the fence line between him and the house. Had there been someone standing or sitting there they almost certainly would have either died or been grievously maimed. There were several people still at the club. It was dumb luck no one was there. The pilot didn't fly at the field again for a month or two, despite showing up to watch and talk.

Example 2: I was flying my 550X late in 2013 trying half piro flips for the second or third time in real life, after hours of sim practice and practice with my 300X in the back yard. It did not go well. I was doing them 50ft up and 50+ft out away from me. By the time it hit the ground it was 10ft behind me, right in front of the flight prep area where people are walking and have their stuff laid out on tables. It passed within 10ft of me on it's way there, more or less at head level. Luckily there were only two people there with me and both were well away from the flight prep areas. Also luckily I hit TH when it was first out of my control out at about 30ft up and 50ft out, so when it was close to me and the flight prep area it was at near blade stall and would have limited injury had it hit someone.

Both instances scared the crap out of me. And both are examples of how people that are "knowledgable" pilots can get into trouble in a big hurry and literally put people's lives in danger. Being someone that is flying well outside their skill level raises the probability of such things happening a lot. Doing it with a micro is one thing. They can be dangerous (laid my pinky finger open with a mCPX under power, would have had stitches if I had gone to the clinic or hospital that night instead of waitng to go to the doctor the next day). But doing it with a 600 is begging disaster.

That all said, he may well respect that 600 in a way he didn't the 130 or the 450. The micros beg for being thrown around haphazardly. 450 less so, but still around loud or imposing enough to grab the attention. 550+ ooze power.

Frankly, given his track record, I'm surprised he's willing to invest in a 600. IF he's got disposable income enough for that then he should be willing to invest in a sim and put some time in on it over the winter.

Maybe invite him over for a few simming sessions?

[Vipertech13]

Well I would have to agree with the others on here, I would really encourage him to get the AMA for the insurance alone! plus if you guys are joining a club, they most likely require an AMA. I have been at the field when a couple guys fly their helis (responsibly) and I walk back to my car, honestly they scare the crap out of me! ( I know I'm a chicken!) Some people just won't learn or listen to reason till something shakes them up! To Quote Grand Ma " It's all fun and games till some one looses an eye"

[Derek]

Both of us are AMA. However, I think the insurance is only good at flying clubs. Not at a local park, where we like to fly.

He's gonna come over this weekend and when its all said and done its gonna be "Safety and Responsible" or "On Your Own". I shouldn't have to be "aware" for him because he isn't.

As for my 600, and my other two helicopters... I have a good stash of spare parts stockpiled. Just because I haven't crashed yet, doesn't mean it won't happen.

Have a good night, guys, and thanks for listening!!!

[pvolcko]

AMA insurance covers you wherever you fly. If you fly at a sanctioned club there is additional club level insurance too. Their club insurance is dependent on pilots having AMA insurance coverage too, which is why AMA sanctioned clubs require AMA for their piloting members. But if you're an AMA member flying in your back yard or a local park you are covered by individual insurance as well as any home owners or umbrella policy you might have.