Derek's ZMR250 Build

[Stambo]

It sounds like vibration to me.
Have you spun the motors up with the props on, one at a time while watching the graph in the motors tab?
Obviously you have to be careful doing this.
Do you have another set of the same props you can try?

As a test, you could try soft mounting the naze on some foam tape just to see if it improves things.

[Derek]

Yes, I did spin the motors up, individually, by holding the quad down. It was rather terrifying but I was careful (and the wife and daughter weren't home to scold me, lol). I saw that the lines on the graph weren't as smooth as the test without props. I fully expected the line to jump around a little bit and it did....just a bit. I remember testing the other motors that I have and these new motors are much much smoother than the other motors. I don't imagine that a test like this, with props on, will display a smooth line at all.

I do have other props of the same kind. I think I have 4-5 sets of four spare props (I'm not nearly as stock as you are, Stambo, I'm sure, lol) I can try another set of props and see what happens.

Like I said early, I did switch to Luxfloat, with the rates at 60, 50, 40 and it's far too twitchy for me now. Do I raise these rates or lower them to tame it down a bit? It's just far too responsive for me and far far too responsive for this testing that I'm needing to do.

It just really bothers me that my other quads flew without this much trouble..with the same motors, props, Naze32, frame size, etc. The only difference is the esc's. On my other quads, I had the Velotech 18amp esc's with SimonK. Because I wanted to give blheli a try, I bought the Afro esc's (SimonK) and flashed them with blheli. The esc's are the only real difference and now I have a quad that is being difficult. I'm nearly tempted to just order new esc's.

[Stambo]

I am not familiar with Luxfloat so I am not sure on the numbers.
If it is too twitchy for you, you could try lowering the RC rate. (This is a bit like adding DR in the TX)

Something you could try in the CLI set acc_cut_hz=50
I think the default is 15 and max is 200.
If you type set acc_cut_hz with no number it will tell you what the default is.
Don't forget to type save.

I don't believe your issue is ESC related otherwise we would see lots of complaints online about it.

[Derek]

I just went to the CLI and, after typing "set", it brings up a list of info and I didn't see anything that says acc_cut_hz.

This picture shows the only listings for anything with "cut_hz", marked by the red X

cut hz.png (17.6 KiB) Viewed 3350 times

[Derek]

On side note, I just got Betaflight to flash. I don't know what I did differently but it worked this time.

At least I think it did. I selected Load Firmware [Local], selected the betaflight.hex file, clicked Flash Firmware, and the progress bar began moving and said Flashing....instead of "bootloader failed", or whatever it said in my other post about the failed bootloader.

Is there somewhere that shows "betaflight" or is that just an assumption that it's there?

[Derek]

This must be betaflight because the CLI listings (after typing "set") are in a different order from what I was looking at earlier

[Derek]

Video doesn't lie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiS6dODYUDM

Thanks for all your help, guys! It would seem that the issue has been caused by vibrations. Vibrations coming from the motors. Vibrations coming from these "NEW" motors. Ugh! I guess I was just refusing to believe it.

Time to hunt down some new motors. Any suggestions for some good motors?

Here are a few things that I'd like to require from the motors:

3-4S capable
6x4 prop capable
less than $80 for a set of 4

These Sunnysky motors worked great on my previous quads and at $15.00/pair, they were awesome! (until now)

Perhaps these motors just need better balanced. I'm searching for "balancing" info now because, in all honesty, I've never done it.

[Graham Lawrie]

Scorpion do good motors , also Emax Red bottom RS see Kevs threads:)

[Derek]

I've put a bit of thought into this. I've checked on a few videos on how to balance brushless motors. I've never done it before, lol. I'm going to see if I can do this to my quad and see if I can get them to run smoother. Hopefully I can. I've also just ordered another full set of motors as spares or to replace these ill motors if need be. At $15 each, these Sunnysky motors are well within my price range and, when they are working right, I know they are good motors and I know they can handle 3 and 4S. I've ran my ECHO 290 with this motors on 4S. So, like I said...I'll try to balance the motors and in a few days I'll have some replacements, too. I just hope that we can get this quad sorted out.

[KevG]

If you do have trouble Derek the Emax RS 2205 2300kv are an excellent motor tons of power and nice and smooth, and can handle 4s with no problems, well some of the Thug Frames lads are testing them out on 6s atm and are loving it,

[Derek]

Very cool, Kev! If these Sunnysky's stop working for me, I'll be checking out those Emax motors. Thanks!

[Stambo]

I have the same sunnysky motors Derek and they are great but from memory they did not much like 6" props.
I cannot understand why they don't perform for you on 5" props although I run 4s so that is the difference.
How about charging your 4s battery and trying with 5040 props.
That's how I run mine and it goes like a rocket.

As far as balancing is concerned I have a video somewhere on balancing small props with a laser.
I do the same thing now but use the GUI.
What I do is balance the motor prop combination as one.
Start by turning the prop on the motor about 45 degrees at a time, you will find a spot where you get the least vibrations in the graph.
Then follow this video but substitute the GUI graph for the laser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nu7YwajBhg

PS I never balance my 5" props on my mini.
I break too many and the HQ props I use tend to be pretty good out of the box.

[Derek]

Yeah, I really don't understand why the 5040 props struggle to lift my ZMR on 3S.

I have a 4S 1400mah and a 4S 1800mah pack. I'll get them charged up....put on the 5040 props....and I'll try that laser method to balance the motors and props as one unit. I'll have to get a laser pointer, lol. I've some a bunch of tools around here....even some kinda random tools, but I don't have a laser pointer, lol.

[Lee]

A quick way to check motor balance, is using a zip tie.
You strap it around the motor bell, then test the motor for vibes.
Each time you test, you move the zip tie around a 1/4 turn and test again.
The weight of the fastening part of the tie adds weight ti that side of the motor.
When you find the point of least vibes, you can mark it and the add something more permanent to that point to balance it.

As for the Yaw, what are the PIDs set to?

[Derek]

I forgot all about the ziptie method. Thank for that, Lee!

As for the PID's, ill share them when I get home. Im at work now.

[Stambo]

Yeah, I really don't understand why the 5040 props struggle to lift my ZMR on 3S.

I have a 4S 1400mah and a 4S 1800mah pack. I'll get them charged up....put on the 5040 props....and I'll try that laser method to balance the motors and props as one unit. I'll have to get a laser pointer, lol. I've some a bunch of tools around here....even some kinda random tools, but I don't have a laser pointer, lol.

You don't need a laser Derek, the graph in the GUI does just as good a job.
It was more an example of where and how to balance the blades on the motor.
As I said before, you turn the prop on the motor a little at a time until you get the least vibrations, then start balancing with tape.

[Derek]

Ok, ill work on it.

Balance the motors with props on

Turning the props a bit after each test

My wife went and bought me an inexpensive laser pen, she's so cool

Im working this weekend but ill test the motors when I can. Ill use the 4S packs, too.

[Derek]

Well, I have to admit that I'm just not making progress. I keep getting told that I'm missing something, I'm using an old version, I don't understand how to upgrade from old version to newer version, I don't know if I have the SimonK bootloader or BLHeli bootloader, something is missing in, or from, the UART (I have no idea what UART is), etc, etc.

I'm thinking that I'm just gonna order new Afro ESC's, leave them with SimonK firmware, and maybe things will work out and I can get this quad flying. There is just so much going on that I don't understand. I did manage to get Betaflight on my Naze32 but I just don't understand anything past this.

I've got the BLHeliSuite on my computer but I can't connect because it's missing something.

[KevG]

If your gonna get esc's mate get the dys xm20a they will be blheli latest straight out for the box.

[Derek]

If your gonna get esc's mate get the dys xm20a they will be blheli latest straight out for the box.

if I get those, will I need to talk with the BLHeliSuite at all?